Tisha B'Av
Word from: Mordy
Excerpted from A Time To Weep: The Fall of Jerusalem and Beitar, by Leibel Resnick.
The Romans staged a celebration atop the towers, amazed that they had concluded the capture of the city without a fight. They ran through the streets looking for survivors. Those who were too weak to find their way into the sewers below were captured. Homes were set ablaze; abandoned fortunes were confiscated. In the course of the raids, the Romans entered houses looking for booty and, to their horror, found whole families, dead from starvation. Rooms were filled with victims of the ravages of hunger. The alleyways were choked with corpses, the streets littered with bodies. Fires were quenched by the blood of the fallen.In my humble opinion, the only Tisha B'Av book to read.
Page 103
13 Comments:
At 1:10 PM, Jake said…
Why, I'm reading Goethe's Faust. I guess it is tangentally connected - evil in the world etc. Ever seeking intellectual mind gone to ashes. Plus, there's a lot of feasting and drinking going on, and that helps my masochistic kicks. Lastly, I'm lamenting that I havent read the book before.
At 3:56 PM, Mordy said…
Oh, far be it for me to say that there are no other books valuable to read on Tisha B'Av. I imagine there are many. Only that this is the only "Tisha B'Av Book" worth reading. The only book that is essentially about the sad day.
At 10:26 PM, David said…
Only book on the day? Mashocism?
Are you guys serious?!
How about Aicha and piyutim? If you can't find any imagery, dense plots, dualities, and ideas in Tisha B'Av as literature, let alone religion and philsophy, I would be amazed.
At 9:26 AM, menachem said…
How about reading Leopold von Sacher Masoch's "Venus in Furs"?
By the way, for all you frummies out there (that means you Jake), my friend Michael made a good point. What the hell were the Jews thinking messing with the Romans? If the Romans demonstrated anything consistently for the centuries before, it was that they didn't enjoy opposition much and they squashed it most unceremoniously. In fact, they did it so well that every group they oppressed is still pissed off about it today. I say if the Jews were smart none of this would have happened. Thoughts?
At 10:30 AM, Jake said…
In regard to Dave's comment - what's up with "dense plots"? May Jeremiah forgive me, but as far as I'm concerned the "plot" of Eicha ain't dense but very straigh-forward - as are the metaphors. Its strength is in heart-wrenching emotion. Poetics of emotion rather than poetics of story telling or literary skill etc. I'm not saying that straight-up disqualifies Tisha B'Av material as literature - it's just a category of its own.
As to Menachem's thing - didn't everybody rebel against the Romans at some point? Plus some of them Semitic tribes have an ultra-heightened sense of pride / need for independence.
At 12:16 PM, nora said…
classic menachem... if i didn't think your sole motivation for that comment was to irk people ("frum" or not), i would respond by wishing you a set of convictionsor beliefs that you could defend-even under the most dire circumstances, not the least of which was "lehachis."
moving on, does anyone else find the most depressing thing about tisha b'av that we haven't learned from our mistakes?
At 10:44 AM, menachem said…
Aw Nora. I love you so much, but you should know Wilde's distinction between truth of the statement at hand and the intent of the speaker. The first is the question; the latter is totally irrelevant.
And I do have a set of "convictionsor beliefs," they just don't care to harbor the terrorists in archaic practices that mourn temples long gone.
As to learning from our mistakes you mean so many Israelis are taking on the IDF and the global community in a manner as foolish as the Jews taking on the Romans under the false pretext of religion as a banner that will surely fall smack on its face in front of the greater gods, science and reaon and open-mindedness?
Mwah.
At 3:44 PM, Alieza said…
Menachem- I'm disturbed by the diregard you're showing for Gush Katif residents. I think there was a shift here in Israel- or at least in Jerusalem (Tisha ba'av being the pivot). No matter what you believe politically, if you have heart, you feel bad for these people being kicked out of their homes. There are several apolitical groups (and even extreme left wing groups) organizing volunteers to help the evacuees settle into their caravans and hotel rooms. I think post tisha ba'av, at the very least we can try to empathize and respect people's emotions and psychology.
There is room to differntiate between the violent extremists who should be criticized on the grounds of their actions (most of whom do not live in Gaza) and the residents who have every right to protest and make the country realize how destabalizing and crushing it is to be moved out of your home.
The disengagement is a reality. You ( I can guess your political leanings from your post) can feel like you have won. Do you really need to continue gloating?
At 3:45 PM, Alieza said…
Menachem- I'm disturbed by the diregard you're showing for Gush Katif residents. I think there was a shift here in Israel- or at least in Jerusalem (Tisha ba'av being the pivot). No matter what you believe politically, if you have heart, you feel bad for these people being kicked out of their homes. There are several apolitical groups (and even extreme left wing groups) organizing volunteers to help the evacuees settle into their caravans and hotel rooms. I think post tisha ba'av, at the very least we can try to empathize and respect people's emotions and psychology.
There is room to differntiate between the violent extremists who should be criticized on the grounds of their actions (most of whom do not live in Gaza) and the residents who have every right to protest and make the country realize how destabalizing and crushing it is to be moved out of your home.
The disengagement is a reality. You ( I can guess your political leanings from your post) can feel like you have won. Do you really need to continue gloating?
At 4:52 PM, menachem said…
Wow, Alieza, I see you are doubly disturbed! Who would have thought I'd inspire criticism twofold?
Honestly, if you can "guess [my] political leanings from [my] post," I would be very surprised. If you want a go at it, you can email your guess to me. I look forward to receiving that... Frankly I thought Mima'amakim didn't attract writers who make immature assumptions about each other. I will have to discuss this with Jake...
I don't feel like I won, and of course I am not gloating. I would not, personally, want to leave my home, though if I built it with the knowledge it was illegal, I can't say I wouldn't expect it.
I love statements like "No matter what you believe politically, if you have heart, you feel bad for these people being kicked out of their homes." Are you for real?
Also didn't I read they are getting between 350 and 500 K to resettle? That's a mighty good deal, considering how much the houses are worth...
I agree that "post tisha ba'av, at the very least we can try to empathize and respect people's emotions and psychology." In that light, perhaps you should take back the assumptions about me and "the extreme left wing" (I didn't know such a group existed)that you have made?
I wonder who these "violent xetremists" are. If I talk to one and say "Are you, sir or madam, a violent extremist?" would they say yes? Or is the category your own invention?
At 5:21 PM, Jake said…
Alieza, known fact: one can only talk to Menachem after he had his doze of absinth. Otherwise he is intolerable, though in rare moments, entertaining. What they term "enfant terrible." Don't be disturbed.
And please, peeps, no politics. L'art pour l'art.
At 3:54 AM, Alieza said…
Wow there Menachem. I guess I struck a nerve.
I won't respond by talking politics. I want to talk about how we read and read into each other's words.
I'm sorry if I misjudged your politics. I'm sure they are complex and fascinating - I only assumed you were pro disengagement. I guess when I read, I collect information based on hints and word choice. When you belittle settlers as "foolish" and use your writing prowess to dramatically describe the end of their fight for greater Israel, you position yourself in a general political camp.
"Extreme left"? Do you identify with that term? because I never applied it to you. I was simply trying to show how those who in the past have vilified the settlers are shifting toward empathy in these days after disengagement has begun.
"Are you for real?" you ask. I am "for real" that I hope people can feel empathy and political opposition at the same time. Maybe I'm idealistic too- I wish you would point out why I'm naive and what are the reasons why I shouldn't be, instead of flippantly leveling my comments. That kind of rhetoric sounds good on a pithy blog but doesn't help me refine my ideas.
As for the violent extremists: The boys throwing acetone and other chemicals at the police and soldiers. My empathy doesn't stretch that far.
But I do apologize for creating labels at a whim. I think we all get a little narcissistic about our ability to write artsy posts. Might we lose sight of some of the meatier ideas that don't always need to be expressed with pageantry? One well placed rhetorical device goes a long way towards shading and connotation, hints that our mature readers just might pick up on.
At 9:16 AM, menachem said…
If you struck a nerve, thanks, I didn't know mine still worked!
I do not identify with the "extreme left," though I know you did not apply it to me. I just think the term itself is propaganda. I am a registered Libertarian, if you care to know.
Empathy and political opposition at the same time it is. Well said!
As to the naive question and revising your ides and idealism, I don't pretend to have any answers for myself, let alone for you. I just think generalizations are usually not so useful. Here is another one: "I think we all get a little narcissistic about our ability to write artsy posts." I wouldn't know an artsy post if it came up and bit me on the nose. Sure I am narcissistic, but artsy? Never!
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